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Post by Trolumel on Jun 23, 2011 19:03:56 GMT -8
Isolde: I couldn't disagree more. Well, except the makeup part. Makeup on a man who's not about to go on camera is stupid-looking.
That much masculinity is an extreme turn-off to me. I don't like girly guys, but I also don't like "manly men." To an extent, I'd also say I prefer "guys" over "men." The former connotes a peer, an equal; the latter connotes someone older, stronger. I find that to be incredibly unappealing.
Though in my case it probably stems from having somewhat of a dominant personality, and competing for that role is not enjoyable.
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Post by Cerridwyn on Jun 23, 2011 19:47:16 GMT -8
Interesting. I'm not so picky what they look like. I care more how they behave. I like guys for casual things, but I'm definitely a top who prefers the company of another top to a submissive. I'm an in-your-face kinda woman  Again, not a warrior, but he has coffee  okay let's try a a different one, mutter google images |
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 8:51:50 GMT -8
granted
male vrs female
Masculinity and masculine just like femininity or feminine, are cultural concepts.
femininity is not just biology, it's about balance and opposites: there's a balance between being a nudist free-love maniac and a frigid Victorian hush-hush type, a biker girl dressed in leathers and covered in oil; and a delicate petal in a flowery cotton dress underskirted with petitcoats who gets the vapours.
Unfortunately many of us are influenced by the worlds views on sex, gender roles, femininity/masculinity. Many women take their cues from film, television, or women's magazines. We swallow what it is to be feminine as dictated by society and culture or even religions. Whilst I am appreciative of industrial society, emancipation and am indebted to "feminism" and the suffragettes, I cannot help but feel a little saddened that the emphasis on being content to be a woman has been stolen from us and removed too far. With too much pressure being put on us to conform to a standard.
Traits that are considered feminine include large breasts, narrow waist, fertility, being emotional, affectionate, sympathetic, sensitive, soft-spoken, warm, childlike, pretty, willowy, submissive, and compassionate. But a woman can be the exact opposite and still be the epitome of femininity. There is a strength in femininity and that comes from being content with who you are, what you look like, how you conduct yourself, ~
· personally I am not the archetypal feminine beauty as described above but I am a woman, I am feminine and the best thing is I love it. I want to be a woman, and I want my man to be a man. and if I want to have a sexual relationship with a woman then I would want her to be a woman too. Its the differences that make it erotic and appealing not everyone with the same looks and dangly bits.
The pervasive attitude about masculinity among the progressive crowd is that it's a bad thing, that male aggression is the reason we have crime and wars. But do we really want to get rid of maleness altogether?
masculinity is indeed old fashioned. I would say tribal, even, but it's hardly irrelevant.
it's the need to be part of, to serve, to protect, to fight for, and to die for something more important than yourself. That is masculinity, idealized. it's what drove ancient men to back breaking work and to face violence from beast and other men, so that their families may be safe. it's what drove men to storm the beaches of Normandy, running roughshod of machine gun batteries.
Male aggression is also the reason we have innovations, prosperity, and security.
Society aggressively pursues the feminization of our boys, and the masculinization of our girls, in the hope that when the properly trained generation grows up and becomes world leaders, there will be peace and everyone will get along.
I like men to look like men and women to look like women, why try to look like the other why not rejoice in the differences afterall that is what is attractive about us just mho mind.
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Post by Trolumel on Jun 24, 2011 11:58:12 GMT -8
I don't agree with any of that. Not from some false-philosophical idea that androgenizing the world will bring about peace. I just find those hallmarks of "masculinity" to be, largely, distasteful.
There's always a flip side to each of those characteristics. The traditional idea of masculinity may work those niches well, but such people are generally hard to get along with. They're too busy protecting what's theirs and securing their role on top to live, to enjoy life. And that kind of protection and security comes from a lot of aggressive posturing; it pushes people away, often even those they're protecting. It damages the relationships one needs to be happy.
With traditional notions of femininity, there's also the usual self-esteem issues that enter the scene. Being on those edges of masculinity and femininity that you describe just plain isn't healthy or conducive to a happy life. The majority of the time (the exception being those who enjoy being in those roles), it also means giving up your individuality--your wants, your desires, parts of your personality--to be someone else. Individuality, of course, is far more important.
And that's why people are, willingly, moving away from these archaic gender norms. They don't serve the individuals very well; they never have.
Cerridwyn: To an extent I'm similar. I've been attracted to guys who are feminine-looking, and masculine-looking, but in general I go for guys who are more average. I'm a little strange on the dominance-action, though. I like someone who will argue with me, and discuss philosophy as ferociously as I do. But, in general, boiled down to its simplest, I like getting my way.
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 14:00:04 GMT -8
The one thing to remember is that men and women are different, their genitalia dictates that. We are not going to agree on androgeny trekwiz. People find different things sexy, that have nothing to do with what gender traits the person is exemplifying. sexy is subjective and depends on personal taste and sexual orientation, but sexualized is more or less a set of cultural norms and shorthand that can be studied and quantified relatively objectively. A man who is "pretty" is somehow feminine. As soon as we have a boy with dreamy eyes, soft lips, silken hair, a dancer's body and powerful emotions, he "must be gay." Which is crap. Men are beautiful. Men are sexy. Men are desirable. Women want men. Men want men. Men are hawt. lets look at the Japanese term for young men who are thought to be sexually attractive and are somehwhat feminine. English-speaking fans typically call them "bishônen" (lit. "beautiful boy"), though I'm given to understand that a Japanese speaker would employ the term only with reference to young teenagers; the term "bidanshi" (lit. "beautiful [young] man") more properly describes adult characters who fit the type. I like this pic purely because I like his insignia, would I want to bump him against the wall and take him .... hmmm well maybe Cloud strife  As for Bleach, I like this pic because he actually looks like he can and would do the business with that sword.. again though he doesnt appeal to my erotic side. ichigo  and then of course there's Yaoi, 2 guys for the price of one. @ cerd your image didnt show up, so I cant comment. As to the dominance submissive discussion, well that is a whole nother discussion in and of itself.  |
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Post by Cerridwyn on Jun 24, 2011 16:54:52 GMT -8
What people says is attractive in a particular gender is related to culture and time. Because of their different body types, the Japanese did not produce the linebacker type body shape. Thus, they have something else they are attracted to. When I watched my first anime, way years ago, I always found the large round eyes fascinating. I like my women to have breasts. They do not have to be DD but I just like them. I do not like to look at women body builders because, well, someone as Isolde says, men are hard, women aren't. That being said, I also like men that I can cuddle, and you can't cuddle a rock. I have always been attracted to what one of my female ex's calls Teddy Bear type men. Not necessarily fat, but at least slightly soft and cuddly. There is this guy I work with, he is my coffee geek buddy. He is young enough to be my son, so let's just say there is no sexual chemistry (his wife would kill me) but he's Haut. And he is incredibly metrosexual. He's got that lean muscle mass that is strong. I find him incredibly attractive. But person is more important than gender to me and body type. I lived with a guy that was 6'6" and not fat and I've cared very deeply for another who is about 5'5" and incredibly slender and another that is about 5'9" and overweight. Because in the end, there is a difference between eye candy and emotion. (although I like longish hair) Anyway, male or female?    |
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 17:57:03 GMT -8
I hear ya cerd, we're not disimilar in that viewpoint. Beauty in males as well as females changes with time, for women even with the monthly cycle. I like women to have breasts too, I prefer my men not to... nothing wrong with pecs but man boobs erm no uh uh ... There is plenty of male sexualization in RL as well as fantasy art. Daniel Craig in a tux playing James Bond is sexualization. Cary Grant was often sexualized; just watch North by Northwest. Ditto for Clark Gable. This "flawless perfection" isnt always what you want, and over rippened muscles is also imo unattractive, looking like the Thing from fantastic four isnt my cup o tea! Incidentally random fact here: did you know womens skin is softer than mens because of the extra thickness of the subcutaneous layer beneath it. Whereas the physiology of men is that of muscle definition, guess thats what makes us huggable and soft to the touch. anyhow I digress (AGAIN!) male but could be a female. The more I look the more I see famale traits, either way an attractive face. male male but very very metrosexual almost intentionally made to be female. The magna Carte:Tears of Blood (Magna Carta: Crimson Stigmata) males are all very sylph looking too. Whereas Frank Frizzetti is definately distinguishable. |
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 18:07:02 GMT -8
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 18:11:59 GMT -8
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Post by isolde on Jun 24, 2011 18:27:27 GMT -8
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Post by Trolumel on Jun 24, 2011 19:35:14 GMT -8
My idea of "sexy" would more be a swimmer type--very thin, muscle strength but little muscle tone.
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Post by isolde on Jun 25, 2011 2:37:04 GMT -8
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Post by Cerridwyn on Jun 25, 2011 6:49:52 GMT -8
I tried to find serial sean connery pics. I could find James Bond and I could find Indiana Jones' father type, but finding the ones in the beginning were hard. I hunted for a Highlander pic (yes, he was in the original) and couldn't find one. He's an example of how images change with age. Women swooned at him as James Bond and still do now that he's older. He's been voted the sexiest older man before. The faces of bond: Sean Connery  Like Cary Grant or other leading men of that type in the 60's he was sophisticated. George Lazenby  Who remembers him? Roger Moore  Was already not a young man. Had played a spy before in the bond type image but was never fully accepted. Timothy Dalton  A younger bond again Pierce Brosnon  A different body type, a different look totally. A big change for Bond. Many did not like it at first. Daniel Craig  No longer top notch handsome in the view of many. pics are from www.imdb.com/list/WQKbHU_VfDE/ if they won't load, again. However, few know that Sean Connery was not the first movie James Bond. David Niven was. In 1966. It was a spoof.  And before that there was a TV show, played by Bary Bond in the 1950s!  To me, it's a good history of what women looked for in men. Look just not at who they were, but how they were portrayed. |
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Post by isolde on Jun 25, 2011 9:16:16 GMT -8
Ah James Bond.... movie stars have certainly contibuted to shifting perecptions. look at the subtle difference between Ben Hur 1959  2010 .jpg) another actor to look at is Viggo Mortensen..he looks quite different from good ol aragorn and of course there's the "Roman Movies" ..King Arthur, the Eagle, et al, all that armour and sword play ... hmmmm   |
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Post by Trolumel on Jun 25, 2011 21:37:48 GMT -8
Ah--those aren't the body types I tend to associate with a swimmer. When I think of a swimmer, I think of flat abs (not a six pack), and a somewhat defined chest. This is what I think of when I think of "hot" and "swimmer's body":   I think this one is incredibly cute!  I don't think he's remotely cute, but, he illustrates the body type I'm referring to.  The middle two. Though the one in the black bathing suit is the only one I'd call cute. (If I don't like the face, I honestly don't care about the body--a cute face is the most basic requirement for me to find someone attractive.) You look at them and you can tell they're strong, but I wouldn't call any of them toned. When I think of toned, I think of, at a minimum, this:  Which...I don't like. Toned bodies just look too.....blobby. |
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