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Post by Amarynth on Jul 21, 2012 15:21:49 GMT -8
1. I'm sorry. I didn't wish to create a controversy, but only to spread an awareness and perhaps get less people to shop at Walmart, if they are indeed attaining their meat from sources like this. 2. Rand, thank you for pointing out what I was trying to convey. <3 3. Phae, thank you for agreeing with me!!! <3 4. Max, I love you (<3<3) but I truly do not believe that one well run farm/processing plant does not set the standard for all the other possibly hundreds of other food processing plants out there. These videos are out there for a reason, and the very fact that they are out there does indicate that this is a problem. I for one would not wish to eat meat that has been abused, suffered from sores and infections and fed genetically modified feed in order to produce more for a society who constantly wants more. Supply and demand, I understand that, but it does not make what is going on right. Disgusting Fois Gras is one prime example... an unnecessary and cruel so called delicacy in my opinion. We as Americans truly need to be more aware of what we put into our bodies and our children's bodies. America is dying because of the horrendous food supply (obesity, diabetes, heart disease, etc...). Some feel that our current SAD (Standard American Diet) is imposed on us by a government, Monsanto, pharmaceutics industry ploy to keep us fat, sick and nearly dead (yep, watched that documentary too). It all comes down to money and who can get rich. Also, I'd like to restate that a Vegetarian/Vegan diet need not be expensive. Grains and legumes are cheap! Fruit and veggies are cheap and if you're lucky you can grow these year round for pennies. Now I like meat. I've eaten meat all my life, but now for health reasons (cancer and its links to our animal food supply) I eat a mostly vegetarian diet, (not 100% yet, but I'm almost there...definitely sooner after watching this video) and it's not any harder on my pocket. I also have to purchase meat for the kids, and with me eating healthier, I still spend around the same amount at the market as I always have.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 21, 2012 15:53:46 GMT -8
I still stand by the point meat is inexpensive in times of drought. Which Colorado faces. Fruit and vegetable prices are predicted to sky-rocket, whereas meat is to stay relatively low.
Also, I agree: the American people need to learn what they eat, and how much. But it is not for the government to determine how we act. That can only be done for ourselves.
But, if you're referring to more standards and regulations.......I have mixed feelings. We need health codes, no doubt. And if we retain those, good. But some regs are just ridiculous.
And my work place was the standard; it was owned by a company who has operations all over the country.
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Post by elitecanada on Jul 22, 2012 10:33:05 GMT -8
That is just sick, I could barely watch that. That is nearly as bad as the Colorado shooting in the century theatre :
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 10:58:00 GMT -8
Let's not compare the senseless bloodshed of people to unfortunate occurrences in the food industry. It degrades the value of a human life.
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Post by Amarynth on Jul 22, 2012 11:22:51 GMT -8
I still stand by the point meat is inexpensive in times of drought. Which Colorado faces. Fruit and vegetable prices are predicted to sky-rocket, whereas meat is to stay relatively low. Alright, true enough...I can't argue with that. Perhaps Phae can? Also, I agree: the American people need to learn what they eat, and how much. But it is not for the government to determine how we act. That can only be done for ourselves. But, if you're referring to more standards and regulations.......I have mixed feelings. We need health codes, no doubt. And if we retain those, good. But some regs are just ridiculous. Actually, I was implying that the government, along with companies such as Monsanto and the pharmacudical companies are all in cohoots with keeping American's ignorant of what a proper diet should be. Now I know I have no proof to this allegation, and there is progress being made (like Mrs. Obama and her garden, the new and improved food pyramid etc, etc); but it all seems to me that the more obese and sick we are, the more money these people make. I'll be doing more research on this, I think.....see if I can find anything to support my suspicion. And my work place was the standard; it was owned by a company who has operations all over the country. Okay, I'm still wary though. And uh...debates are actually....fun. You're making me use my brain, which is a very good thing at my age. <3
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 12:37:30 GMT -8
;D ;D ;D
People, especially the American people, need civil discussion and true debate, not senseless argument. This is good, and I have debated this particular subject with myself. It's frustrating and sometimes depressing to see what some people do, but when I see the other side, I can't justify punishing the majority for a small minority.
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Post by phaedron on Jul 22, 2012 13:03:26 GMT -8
I still stand by the point meat is inexpensive in times of drought. Which Colorado faces. Fruit and vegetable prices are predicted to sky-rocket, whereas meat is to stay relatively low. Max knows that Phae knows that the U.S. government spends hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayer money every year subsidizing the cost of meat, whereas they spend virtually nothing on ensuring low-cost access to healthy foods such as fruits and vegetables. As an example, I believe Max lives in Colorado? Somewhere around there... sorry if I have you confused with someone else I know online my friend. farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=08000While grains still receive the bulk of farm subsidies in CO, meat & dairy ranks #2 in total spending by food type. You notice nothing about fruits or vegetables in that list. So yes Max, prices for meat are cheaper -- but that's mostly because you have better, more well-funded lobbyists than folks who grow fruits and vegetables, and certainly not because the price of meat is naturally lower. This is one of the most government-influenced markets in the history of our nation. A few more thoughts from those ultra-liberals at Forbes magazine: www.forbes.com/sites/dougbandow/2011/07/18/its-time-to-kick-farmers-off-the-federal-dole/Then there's the pinko commies at The Economist: www.economist.com/node/11293923
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 14:29:58 GMT -8
From the first article, written by a man who admitted to a scandal and from the libertarian Cato Institute, I saw little regarding meat itself. What I saw was an outdated farm subsidiary system. Which is true. It's out dated and needs fixed, but not completely turned upside down. I saw them at numbers seven and ten out of ten. Are we looking at something different? And I must correct myself: Colorado is terrible at growing a lot of fruits, and some vegetables, primarily because we can't: we're dry. Not just drought, but we just can't out here. But Florida, farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=12000, cotton and peanuts are two and three. And looking at the US Total, farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000, SOYBEAN, the stereotypical vegetarian product, and rice come in at five and seven. Dairy and livestock aren't involved until nine and eleven.
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Post by phaedron on Jul 22, 2012 19:08:48 GMT -8
I never said the U.S. doesn't subsidize other stupid things more than meat and dairy. I said it subsidizes meat and dairy more than veggies and fruit. Just because meat & dairy comes in at #7 and #10 doesn't mean that they aren't #2 after grain crops in aggregate.
U.S. subsidization of genetically modified soybeans is a horror show, almost as bad as our subsidization of corn. Vegetarians need to own up to their role in distorting the food chain as well... GM soy has significant health risks, including increases in allergic reactions.
So yes, we subsidize corn, wheat, and soy more than we do anything else.
We subsidize meat and dairy as well.
We really don't subsidize veggies and fruit.
What do cattle eat? Is it veggies, or is it cheap, subsidized grains?
Thus, the market is still grossly distorted vs. how it would be without subsidies, and my original point about relative food prices stands.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 19:21:08 GMT -8
And my stance remains that meat is not the big bad guy everyone puts it out to be. There are bigger guys out there, and it's at the fault of a bad system of government.
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Post by phaedron on Jul 22, 2012 19:38:05 GMT -8
Max, that's a terrible argument man... "Well, there are others out there worse than us!" Yes, I know. All subsidies are bad. Yours, theirs, everyone's. If you'll just agree the market would be better off with a crop/livestock disaster insurance program instead of direct subsidies, I'll leave you alone All subsidies are bad. ALL of them.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 19:44:28 GMT -8
I can agree to that. I t definitely would make for a better system. Like you said, subsidiaries can be compared to excessive welfare on an agricultural level.
You're skewing my argument a little. The point of this thread is to show how bad meat is compared to everyone. What I'm saying is, it's not just meat. It's the entire system.
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Post by phaedron on Jul 22, 2012 20:28:29 GMT -8
Okay... but in vegetarians' defense, a video depicting the perils of genetically modified soybean proliferation has far less shock value. Yet, the fact that 100% of soybeans in the U.S. have been genetically modified means pretty much all our vegetarians are still contributing to a farm problem with significant health and environmental consequences.
Don't worry, I will not be ceasing eating meat any time soon. Still, if I could afford the premium, I'd be paying for locally-sourced free-range animals. The false choice we've been given is between meat and no meat, as if no meat were somehow not also dangerous in its own way. The real choice is knowing how and from where the food reaches your table.
Read your packaging boys and girls. Free-range, hormone-free eggs from your own state are normally only about $1-2 more per dozen than the factory-farmed, chemical-treated garbage that could have been shipped from a few states over.
Regime change starts at home.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Jul 22, 2012 20:47:14 GMT -8
Me gusta carne.
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