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Post by Amarynth on Dec 14, 2012 20:44:12 GMT -8
...all the families, the children both now departed from this world and those who will have to live with the memory of today for the rest of their lives, and to all who have been touched by this tragedy.
I cried today, watching the news....
I am disgusted by the senseless slaughter of these young children. I am disgusted in a world that allows this horrible thing to happen. I am disgusted that anyone is allowed to possess guns, whether legally or otherwise. I know this might spark a rather heated debate, but I don't care...this shooting is too close to home. This could have been a different school, this could have been my children. My heart truly goes out to those parents who had to stand out there, waiting for their child only to find that their babies were now dead...
I just wanted to put this out there, and ask for you all to pray for those touched so horrifically by this crime of pure evil. Hold your children close, and cherish every single friggen moment with them, because apparently these days you never know when it will be your last.
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Post by Randalla on Dec 15, 2012 19:42:01 GMT -8
Just because I did not have kids of my own, just because I do also happen to own guns and enjoy having them, doesn't mean I'm not touched and saddened by this tragedy. People know me as not being the most 'kid friendly' person they know, but no child, no family deserves this, and I'm every bit as disgusted by it.
But rage is the stronger emotion in me. I'm enraged that every senseless tragedy like this that happens, there's an underlying problem with the person who commits the act that went untreated, under-treated, or ignored altogether because someone else was too afraid to say, "hey, I remember thinking to myself, something just wasn't quite right with that person," as what happened with the nut-job who went on the rampage in Aurora.
I'm enraged that responsible people are being prohibited from carrying means with which to protect themselves and others from acts like this, that there was no staff member there on campus (or on any of the other campuses that have been hit with tragedies like this) armed with the means to cut this bastard down in his tracks. Instead of hearing about the brave principal of that school who tried to charge the shooter with nothing but her bare hands, we might have heard that an armed staff member was able to take him out before countless other defenseless children were killed.
People's knee jerk reactions are to blame the guns, not the people wielding them. The very same day this horrible thing happened, almost as many children were stabbed by a nut job with a knife over in China. Criminals or deranged people are going to cause harm whether they have a gun, a knife, a car, or a rock.
The common thread that ties most of these senseless acts together is the mental health and capacity of the person responsible. If only more attention was drawn to THAT, not the inanimate object.
I own guns. I am not going to go out and shoot people senselessly. If the day ever comes that, god forbid, I should find myself in a position to defend myself or another innocent person from the criminal act of another, I hope to god I have one of my guns with me, because I refuse to be someone's helpless victim, and I refuse to watch someone else get hurt or killed if there's a way for me to prevent it without causing additional harm to other innocents, myself. Disarming ME and others like me is not the answer. Addressing the problem directly, the mental health, prior criminal record, the behavior of the PERSON responsible, is more of a step in the right direction.
And because criminals don't pay attention to the law, it might well come down to another responsible, law abiding gun owner and carrier like me to stop the scum in his tracks before more innocents are hurt in the half hour it takes for the police to respond.
Thoughts and prayers to the families and first responders, but I will also continue to redirect focus, attention and energies toward a lacking mental health assessment and treatment field, while others will likely continue to insist on blaming the inanimate objects, and push to punish the law abiding folks like me who want to keep our means for protection close at hand.
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Post by BigKif on Dec 16, 2012 20:57:45 GMT -8
My thoughts and prayers to those families affected by this.
And wholehearted agreement with Rand's views.
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Post by phaedron on Dec 17, 2012 8:47:54 GMT -8
Yeah... more guns is what we need. See if that Kindergarten teacher had a gun (which I'm sure never would have been in a dangerous position for kids to mishandle while she was cleaning up poop and finger paint spills) she would have had to have shot her own kid in this case to save her students... you think you could have pulled that trigger? You think you could live with yourself no matter whether you did or didn't? But this isn't even about guns, it's about what makes America so very very special that our children kill more other children per capita than any other OEDC nation. Canada has guns. I know a number of Greeks who enjoy their guns... and while civil unrest is a problem, they don't have little kids going around slaughtering each other. Still, the more guns argument is a stupid one because of this, more than anything else: abcnews.go.com/US/empire-state-building-shooting-nypd-gunfire-wounded-victims/story?id=17078377#.UM9MNqyI6PAThat's right -- trained police officers who have to go to the range regularly hit innocent people who wouldn't have otherwise been shot by this particular lunatic. What I can't wait for is a bunch of yahoos with CCPs and go to the range maybe once a month at best, trying to hit a small moving target amongst other small moving targets. No friendly fire there, amirite? |
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Post by Cerridwyn on Dec 17, 2012 19:49:38 GMT -8
You all know (or mostly know) that I hate guns. (Give me a sword any day... it will serve me better after the Zombie Apocalypse, I can cut of limbs.)
Now, all kidding aside, there are things that can be done with gun laws that might make a gun nut grumble but would make some sense.
1. Make it a federal felony to sell an un-registered gun and a less crime to buy one. Why? Because it allows weapons to be traced not that you can't buy them, but that you have to buy them legally. Reasonable to enforce, probably not some would say, but why not?
2. Extend the waiting period. If you can wait 3 days, you can wait 15. Make that required in all states. Why? Because it won't change plotting, will change impulse. 3 days still allows impulse. It would also allow background checks to come back.
3. License ownership. i.e., get the background check and a license which would decrease your waiting period. Good for say a year. Would allow revenue to help enforce other things. Would not be required to do it in advance, but would make it easier for collectors.
4. Make cartridges that hold insane amounts of bullets illegal. If you need more than an old revolvers 6, you're in trouble anyway.
Fix the mental health system that Reagan broke. Yes, it was broke before, but releasing thousands of people into the system didn't fix things. It just made them worse. Now, I"m not saying institutionalize them, but allow them to get care. Most insurances allow only a pittance for mental health because, well, it would be expensive. So instead of regular visits to a qualified mental health practitioner, people end up on the street, in jail, or hospitalized when things are out of control, instead of treating it when it's easily treatable.
A huge public campaign to de-stigmatize it. That takes money, and the willingness to do so.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Dec 17, 2012 19:59:47 GMT -8
Not even caring about what the two extremists have said, but Cerd seems pretty damn calm on this one, and I like what she says. (Phae, I think AP confirmed the mother was not a teacher, so it wouldn't have mattered. I actually think an armed teacher or administrator is a possibility to explore.)
All aside, I was reading the AP dramatized story on my way back home out loud to my family. I was pretty level and flat, but when I got to a portion that mentioned law enforcement had to notify a boy his sister was killed, he said he "wouldn't have anyone to play with anymore." I lost it. I don't cry often, but I wailed for those children. that's the detail for me that did it.
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Post by phaedron on Dec 18, 2012 0:22:54 GMT -8
And if that armed teacher or administrator shoots an innocent bystander by accident because they don't practice firing their weapon monthly like any trained police officer would... it's... okay... Max? I mean seriously, that stance makes me an extremist? Where do you even get off calling me an extremist? I DO support the 2nd Amendment right to keep and bear arms. I have done so myself. Argument By Dismissal FallacyCerd thinks (as I do) that we should have stronger background checks, cutting out the gun show loophole -- it should be AT LEAST as difficult to get a license to carry a gun as it is to have a license to drive a car. I don't know where you got "extremist" out of my top post, but I guess that's why we don't talk as much anymore, huh? Sarcastic? Maybe. Cynical? Definitely. An extremist I am not, and I am a little insulted that you, who knows my work, would say such. That's my derail  |
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Dec 18, 2012 12:30:45 GMT -8
Easy! Hahaha! I've always called you and Rand my extremists. I'm an extremist even. I was simply observing that Cerd was more in the middle this time than you two, that's all. The reason we don't talk any more is because you've become a little more....cynical, as you've said. I really enjoy our conversations. You just are always so very, well, cynical.
And I thought it was implied that the teachers and administrators would have regular training. I think Israel has some system like this which is, again, worth exploring.
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Post by Amarynth on Dec 18, 2012 15:25:07 GMT -8
Cerd, you said it perfectly. I'm just so distraught over this entire incident...so senseless it was and utterly heartbreaking for me to think of those parents waiting for their children to come out of that fire house and finally realizing they just were not going to come. They buried two babies yesterday. I think two more today. It's terrible...such a terrible thing to imagine. This strikes home to me in more ways than any of you can imagine...every single day I live with the fear that my youngest is going to do something to hurt herself. I can't imagine life without her. I. Just. Can't. I feel so strongly what these parents must be feeling...my heart aches and my eyes fill up with tears every time I think about it.
I understand the argument that people kill people, not guns...but if those guns were a LOT more difficult to attain, then maybe this tragedy could have been stopped...somehow; and those mommas would have been planning for the holiday rather than their children's funerals.
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Post by Indiomaestro on Dec 29, 2012 20:14:48 GMT -8
Terrible tragedy about which all the arguments seem petty. I cannot make any sense out of the crazy. My first reaction as a teacher was to allow me to arm myself, but probably a better idea is you armour district security. We have war veterans who are protecting us, arm them. But I don't think elementaries have security like our secondary schools do?
Or another thought was to have a couple weapons on campus locked up, where school personnel could get them in an emergency. We had lots of absences after the shooting, students said their parents were afraid to send them with the news and the Mayan thing all over the news. Just sad.
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