|
|
Post by phaedron on Mar 13, 2013 18:56:08 GMT -8
Just saying, it's pretty hilarious when a Zen Buddhist philosopher who is an Atheist called the new pope better than you did. Shit, I even picked the country!
Rubbing it in... just a little. I think this is a VERY good move for the church, post-Ratzinger -- but I still miss JP2, who finally forgave Galileo.
|
|
|
|
Post by BigKif on Mar 13, 2013 19:48:18 GMT -8
Ya, someone from the New World finally.
|
|
|
|
Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 13, 2013 21:08:49 GMT -8
I hope when you say post-Ratzinger you're not implying that Benedict had a poor pontificate.
I missed my two o'clock, and could not pay attention to a lesson on taxes in public admin today when I got the notification. I'm super, 100 percent stoked.
Long live the Pope! Long live Francis!
|
|
|
|
Post by phaedron on Mar 14, 2013 1:22:51 GMT -8
You know I'm always going to have more love for JP2 than Benedict, Max -- you and I have some pretty strong theological differences (not the least of which being my atheism, which of course is not incompatible with theological discussion, at least in my case). Point being, was he "bad" for the church? Not seemingly. Did he do anything to modernize or make the church more inclusive of devout believers? Not to my knowledge, not nearly as much as JP2 did. I think Francis will obviously follow Benedict in the obvious church policies, but I can't imagine outreach to Latinos, perhaps especially in America won't be more of a priority. This was a very good choice for a church that's simply not going to accept certain secular realities inside their own walls (as is their right, backwards as I think it might be). I have a hard time with any organized religion... not just yours Max  |
|
|
|
Post by Cerridwyn on Mar 14, 2013 3:55:29 GMT -8
You don't get it do you? Yes, he's from Argentina. But he's Italian. His parents came from Italy (there are a lot of them there, I know several who went that route before they came to the US). He's the perfect compromise between new world and Italy. Better, I freaking hope so.  |
|
|
|
Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 14, 2013 12:32:31 GMT -8
You know I'm always going to have more love for JP2 than Benedict, Max -- you and I have some pretty strong theological differences (not the least of which being my atheism, which of course is not incompatible with theological discussion, at least in my case). Point being, was he "bad" for the church? Not seemingly. Did he do anything to modernize or make the church more inclusive of devout believers? Not to my knowledge, not nearly as much as JP2 did. I think Francis will obviously follow Benedict in the obvious church policies, but I can't imagine outreach to Latinos, perhaps especially in America won't be more of a priority. This was a very good choice for a church that's simply not going to accept certain secular realities inside their own walls (as is their right, backwards as I think it might be). I have a hard time with any organized religion... not just yours Max Everyone loves Blessed JP. Benedict knew that, because he equally loved JP. Be sure to note that John Paul was great at evangelize, he was theologically conservative. Did he potentially lax some of the liturgical proceedings? Sure. But if you recall, Humanae Vitae, which outlined the destruction of contraception, written by Paul VI, was inspired by John Paul's work as a cardinal called "Love and Responsibility." JPII was awesome. And he was conservative. Francis is Jesuit, meaning he's going to be focused on the social justice of the Church. But, as you said, make no mistake: he will not change the doctrine or dogma of the Church. He may not be as focused as the academic Benedict was, but he'll be pretty staunch about it. And you should be happy, Phae. Francis has a Master's in chemistry, I believe. And Cerd, you're right. His Italian heritage can not be ignored. But at the same time, we have to recognize the culture he lived in. Both shaped his life--now, he is a true citizen of Rome. |
|
|
|
Post by phaedron on Mar 14, 2013 12:42:13 GMT -8
And you should be happy, Phae. Francis has a Master's in chemistry, I believe. That I didn't know... and if true, is pretty damn cool. It kinda stays in following with JP2: yes, the Church is going to stay conservative and won't be allowing female priests or homosexual members any time soon, if ever. BUT, and here's the BIG but... JP2 was the first to do the whole "hey, you know what? science exists too, and we can't ignore it." That's what will keep the Church alive, which is obviously something good for conservatives, and is also good for people like me who just want to make sure that peoples' faith doesn't interfere with their secular education (or vice-versa). |
|
|
|
Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 14, 2013 12:45:28 GMT -8
JPII wasn't really the first to do that. He was the first vocal enough, yes, to make sure everyone knew it. (Due in large to greater media, his passion for the people, etc.) But really, the Church helped fund a lot of scientists and their works. It was a priest who developed the Big Bang Theory, if you recall.
|
|
