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Post by King Wulfgar on Mar 12, 2012 14:59:30 GMT -8
Amarynth I would say you are an Independent which is a good place to be.
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Post by Randalla on Mar 12, 2012 15:19:07 GMT -8
I'm registered independent.
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Post by King Wulfgar on Mar 12, 2012 15:21:38 GMT -8
Awesome!
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 12, 2012 15:26:08 GMT -8
I personally never believed in independent. I think we need to be a people of conviction and principle. Buy not ideological radicalism. Belong to a party, but make sure you can compromise.
Thus my hate for the Tea Party and love of the true GOP.
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Post by King Wulfgar on Mar 12, 2012 16:11:15 GMT -8
I am a registered Republican but the Republicans today are nothing but RINO.As for Independents they get the option not to vote for a complete dumb shit but instead the lesser dumb shit regardless the party. As for the Tea Party ( I am not a part of for clarification) to me they are just a group of people tired of the same one sheep following the other behind a blind shepherd government heading toward a cliff. That is my opinion only not gospel.
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Post by phaedron on Mar 12, 2012 20:13:30 GMT -8
as you should be rand. If he get's another four, you can kiss all your guns goodbye. Does anyone here really consider the second amendment to only pertain to the militia? I mean come on! This is a complete fabrication of Obama's policy. Show me where he's ever said he wants to take away weapons from law-abiding citizens without serious mental illness. Or did you want ex-felons and psychotic people to be able to get guns without background checks? And YES, I do believe the Second Amendment to apply on to militias, and yet I still believe that there's a basic right to have reasonable weapons for self-defense. Do I believe a citizen has the right to a rocket-propelled grenade launcher? No. A handgun or rifle? Yes. Even Republicans believe (and have voted for) bans on metal-detector-proof ceramic and plastic handguns. Isn't that an infringement of the 2nd Amendment? God, I HATE having to defend Obama...
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Post by phaedron on Mar 12, 2012 20:16:44 GMT -8
As long as the dems and reps split one of the legislature or presidency (president, house, senate), I don't really care much who wins. I don't like radical change and having one in total control (either party) kind of scares me... Phrog Smartest thought in the thread right here. No offense to everyone else, I include myself in this statement.
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Post by Randalla on Mar 13, 2012 20:31:19 GMT -8
The economy might be in the hole, but one thing Obama's been good for, that's gun sales. I'm not the only one worried about what he would do to private gun ownership if he thought he could get away with it. Don't trust him in that area as far as I could spit on him.
And I've considered myself a TEA partier, even if I am Independent. There's nothing wrong with or extremist about people who are fed up with corrupt, bought politicians, and politicians screaming for more taxes.
I don't know if the Tea parties in different areas have a different wring to them, but where I'm at, we're constantly fighting attempts to raise our sales tax, property tax, more money being dumped into education where they spend it all building fancy facades and pillars to make elementary schools look pretty, rather than spending the money on real supplies and paying teachers who actually PERFORM, and so on. We're literally "Taxed Enough Already."
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Post by phaedron on Mar 14, 2012 12:25:50 GMT -8
The economy might be in the hole, but one thing Obama's been good for, that's gun sales. I'm not the only one worried about what he would do to private gun ownership if he thought he could get away with it. Don't trust him in that area as far as I could spit on him. Do you have a reason to think he'd do something with your gun rights if he could get away with it? Is it because he's a Democrat? Some other reason? You have a problem with taxing rich people more so that your taxes (and those of 90% of Americans) could actually be lowered? What determines if a teacher performs or not? That's the ultimate question I haven't seen *either* side answer, and as a teacher myself, I'm already not interested in teaching at the K-12 level because of all those stupid performance tests. They are driving good teachers away as much as they are getting rid of bad teachers. Obama's "Race to the Top" is just as stupid as Bush's "No Child Left Behind".
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 14, 2012 12:36:49 GMT -8
I'm an odd breed, you could say. I'm the son of two educators--two, Catholic educators. Constantly pro-life, pro-traditional marriage, etc. Foreign policy wise, hrm. I believe in flexing our muscle when we need, and even intervening when necessary. I think that if there is a heinous genocide occurring, it's our responsibility as human beings to intervene.
Otherwise, I'm ok with the soft power the Obama Administration uses. I'm big on national security, and have no problem using drones to take out enemies.
Economics, I like to think that we avoid European models, relying on our own capitalism. That said, I also think that the Bush cuts were bleh. I HATE no-compromise parties.
Rand, I love you to the core, but I personally think the Tea Party hijacked an honorable GOP. I can see why it happened, but a divorce is necessary.
Bringing all that back: there is no pro-education party. There is pro-union and anti-union. Educators get thrown into the former because of the NEA. (Who I also cannot stand.) There really does need to be an education platform that the Republicans can use for better campaigning.
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Post by King Wulfgar on Mar 14, 2012 13:51:12 GMT -8
I agree with Phaedron on The no child left behind and race to the top, but when it comes to taxing the rich I believe they should pay the same % not any more or less . To make them pay more % because they actually did something with their life is wrong. To believe that 90% of Americans actually pay taxes is naive . About 20/30% are on welfare and about 50% of them don't belong in this country . I was at the store the other day behind a lady with 4 kids buying 2 shopping carts of food none spoke English. She paid with her Oregon Trail Card ( food stamp card) $850 roughly I happen to park 4 spots over from her.I could NOT believe it she drove a Cadillac Denali with 20" spinners!!! There is the Obama plan in action.
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Post by phaedron on Mar 14, 2012 14:14:47 GMT -8
Max: I completely agree with you on the union thing. There was a time unions were a vital necessity in this country... now they've become as bloated and corrupt as the corporations they negotiate with. I'd be all for a pro-education / sensibly moderate (with humanitarian missions in-tact) foreign policy government that you and I could both happily vote for -- too bad we'd always be split over the women's choice debate. PS: We both hate parties that never compromise... and right now, the Democrats are almost always compromising to the point of giving in. That's partially why the Obama healthcare plan sucks so badly. So really, both parties are failing at their jobs. I agree with Phaedron on The no child left behind and race to the top, but when it comes to taxing the rich I believe they should pay the same % not any more or less . To make them pay more % because they actually did something with their life is wrong. Not everyone who is rich got that way because they "did something with their life"... there are Trust Fund Babies, amongst other things. More importantly to me (and to the underlying problem): I have worked since I was 15 years old. I went to school and got good enough grades to make in into graduate school. I have worked for U.S. Senators, multi-national non-profit organizations, and as a very successful teacher (amongst other things). By most measures, especially considering the environment I grew up in, I'd say I've done something with my life. Fast-foward to today: I have a genetic illness that took me away from quite literally the best job I'll ever have in my life just over 2 years ago now. Since then, I've been largely unemployed, picking up work here and there. I am deep in credit card debt, am about to have to cash out my life savings in mutual funds to pay bills -- and I'm sorry, you want me to feel bad that I want free healthcare at the expense of a few more percentage points from folks who were a bit luckier than me? Can't help you there... I worked hard for nearly 15 years... and now I'm completely boned because I can't work a 40-hour week anymore. I'm going to say this as nicely as possible, but I think that's quite possible one of the most hilarious completely made-up sets of statistics I've ever seen in my life. BTW, according to the Native Americans, you don't belong here either -- neither do I. Good thing we're letting white people decide who stays and who goes, eh? Oregon Trail Cards are a state program... not national. Blame Salem for your problems there, not Washington DC. Funny thing? We live in the same state. I'm going to guess you're across the mountains from me though
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Post by King Wulfgar on Mar 14, 2012 15:27:20 GMT -8
Sorry about your illness that completely sucks I mean you no bad will this thread is about our opinions on politics. As far as made up I might be off on the % a little but there are a lot of numbers and opinions out there , but I am not a liar or willingly make shit up.As for Native Americans trust me I know 3 of my brother in-laws are Native American.
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Post by Maximillian Thorton on Mar 14, 2012 15:58:03 GMT -8
I am still indecisive on taxing the rich. One portion says go flat tax, the other says progressive.
Welfare is broken an needs fixed. Some say use it now until fixed, others, like myself, say stop it and fix it. This includes social security. Welfare for people like Phae is crucial.
Reagan said it pretty well: we shouldn't base the success of welfare upon how many people are in it, but how many leave it.
I personally believe on the power of charities over government programs.
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Post by phaedron on Mar 14, 2012 16:37:13 GMT -8
Problem is, I'll never leave some sort of welfare system, unless the market will allow for people who can't do 40-hr work weeks. In this economy, I've been completely unable to find 20 hrs a week of work, which is what I think I could reasonably do well, instead of just trying to half-ass 40 hrs a week, which put me in the hospital last time I tried.
Wulf: I didn't think you were personally attacking me. Politics and religion both can have personal resonance... I thought that in this case, my particular circumstances are illustrative of a situation where someone can work hard all their life, get sick, and then not have any kind of support from society. Lucky for me, I have unemployment for the time being, and it's been a godsend in terms of giving me time to get as healthy as I can.
Anyway, it wasn't particularly about me trying to make you feel bad either... rather just asking you what you think about that type of situation, or maybe how you would cope in that kind of situation?
I mean, grand policies are all fine and good, but I'd think you'll agree that there are at least a few people out there who want to contribute, but can't. How do you help them? How do you make them able to live with some comfort without making them reliant on the system or buying outrageously huge SUVs?
But I certainly didn't think you were trying to be untruthful -- but as someone who has waded through this crap for a living during the last 5 years of his career, I know how often news organizations and politicians distort these numbers for their own benefit. I am just saying, those numbers are impossibly incorrect, even with a 10% margin of error.
Anyway, I'm also saying, there are zero firm statistics on illegal immigration... anyone who claims to know doesn't. But the Bureau of Economic Analysis over at the Department of Labor keeps some very detailed statistics on American labor -- these folks work for both Republicans and Democrats, and only really seem to have a vested stake in making sure their numbers are accurate. They always did well when we audited them.
The last numbers I could find using their historical tables were for 2010:
Welfare as a % of U.S. Population: 4.1% Unemployment Insurance (% of Pop): 9.1% Food Stamps (from USDA as % of Pop, same year): 37.2%
Seems to me, if any of these systems needs to be looked at for inefficiencies and fraud, it's administered by a completely different agency, the USDA.
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